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Did Christ Jesus Die for the Sins of Everyone?

Even though we know “by their fruits” that some people will not make it to heaven, and based on what scripture says,
I think we still have to say that yes, Christ Jesus did die for the sins of everyone.  We know from Scripture that John the Baptist pointed out Christ Jesus and said “Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world” (John 1:29).  In Galatians we find “Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: (Galatians 1:4).  And the Epistle of John says “And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:2).

To me these scriptures are saying that God made it possible for all to be saved by giving His One and Only Son, Christ Jesus, to pay the price for our sins.  I believe that the reason some people won’t be saved is because they deliberately reject God’s offer of forgiveness.  Even though Christ Jesus died for the sins of the world, everyone has the responsibility to accept God’s offer by faith.

Even those who have never heard of God’s free gift of forgiveness and eternal life, to these people God has given them a certain amount of light.  If these people respond to that light, God will give them more light.  Eventually they too can be saved.  Those who don’t respond to that light have no excuse.  Likewise, those who have heard the gospel but do not respond, have no excuse.  So if you have not already, why not ask God for forgiveness today while you still have breath, before it’s too late.

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42 comments to Did Christ Jesus Die for the Sins of Everyone?

  1. alamaragallery@hotmail.com
    July 24th, 2010 at 10:15 am

    Jesus is alive!

  2. free christian
    July 28th, 2010 at 6:27 am

    Praise the name of Jesus..He indeed is alive.

  3. Bethany
    October 31st, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    My question is: If Jesus died for ALL sins, then wouldn’t everyone go to heaven? If Jesus really did die for every single sin of everyone, nobody would go to hell because that debt has already been paid…right? If God is a just God, then why would a debt have to be paid twice? So did Jesus only die for those people who have accepted the gift?

  4. admin
    November 19th, 2010 at 11:19 am

    That’s a very good question Bethany. Jesus did die for the sins of the world. Salvation is a free gift from God. That free gift was paid for by Jesus suffering and dying on the cross and His miraculous Resurrection. To show that we believe that Jesus died for our sins and that his death and Resurrection did indeed wash our sins away, every person must receive or accept that free gift. God is not going to force that gift on someone who doesn’t want it. He is not going to violate our free will. Unfortunately, those people who reject God’s free gift of salvation will suffer eternal torment and separation from God.

    So to answer your final question “So did Jesus only die for those people who have accepted the gift?”, Jesus died for the sins of all people, but only the people who accepted God’s free gift will benefit from that gift. The others willingly choose not to accept the gift and therefore willingly choose to suffer the consequences.

    Please reply if you have more questions.

  5. Sean
    March 24th, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    Admin,

    Doesn seem like you answered her question…So I’ll re-phrase. if Jesus died for everyones sins on the cross 2000+yrs ago, as in fact He did, and if he did indeed bear the sins of everyone, then why would God send forgiven sinners to hell?

  6. admin
    March 25th, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    Thanks for your question Sean. I think I understand what you’re asking and I’ll try to answer. First of all, God doesn’t send forgiven sinners to hell. In fact, God doesn’t send anyone to hell. I think what you are saying is that since Jesus died for everyone’s sins 2000 years ago, then everyone is going to go to heaven. This is a dangerous belief that causes people to live any way they want to because they think they are automatically going to heaven because Jesus died for their sins. If that were the case, why are there so many warnings in scripture telling people to turn from their sins (repent)and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. If everyone is automatically going to heaven, then there is no need for warnings like these.

    The unpleasant fact is, people willingly choose to go to hell when they reject the gift of Salvation from God. Some of these people say that they don’t need God and they can make it on their own. Some think the cross is ridiculous and simply don’t believe Jesus paid the price for their sins. Some people curse God and blaspheme His holy name. They do things like putting a cross in a glass and then urinate into the glass and show this off to the world as a “work of art”. These people are rejecting God’s salvation and are choosing to go to hell. Hell was meant for the devil and his angels. But if people choose to follow the devil then they must also accept to share in the devil’s fate.

    God is patient and He doesn’t want anyone to go to hell. “The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.” 2 Peter 3:9 (NLT)

    So yes, Jesus died for everyone’s sin approximately 2000 years ago. So if everyone in the world repents and accepts Jesus’s sacrifice, then yes, everyone will go to heaven. But unfortunately, not everyone repents and receives God’s free gift of salvation and therefore their sins are not forgiven and they die in their sins.

    To find out what God’s requirements are for going to heaven, see God’s Simple Plan of Salvation. I hope this clears it up but if not, let me know.

  7. Ken
    April 28th, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    By all that I read and hear, Adam had and has far more power that Jesus to influence the destiny of mankind. Adams sins and ALL of mankind is born into sin and hopelessly lost. Jesus, dies on the cross, and if we agree with Him and what He has done, then we can be saved. How is that God needs our help, by way of ACCEPTING his son, for us to be saved when Adam condemned all of mankind through a single personal failing? Is it not possible for God to save all of us through His Son’s work at Calvary? “Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord.”

    I really hate to think that some people would avoid eternal damation. It goes against my religion, but maybe God is more powerful than Adam in this matter. Hmmm.

  8. admin
    April 30th, 2011 at 9:58 am

    Hi Ken,

    Yes indeed, God is more powerful than Adam. He gives all of us free will. Adam had the right to choose. We all have the right to choose. Man is not hopelessly lost. But on the other hand, God is not going to drag anyone into heaven kicking and screaming. He gives us the choice to either accept the sacrifice of His Son or reject it. I really hate to think that many people will not avoid eternal damnation.

  9. John
    May 18th, 2011 at 1:39 am

    Is the God of creation, the God of the Universe, the God who sustains us from breath to breath a cosmic switch board operator who is waiting on his creation (man) to make decisions so he (God) can continue with his plan. Remember the very reason Christ was necessary, because man, per scripture, is dead in his transgression (not a little sick ) and described as searching not for God and unable to do anything good. Would you have people believe that God sent his Son to live the life that he did, endure the death that he did & then conquer death so that fallen man can then “do with him what you can”. Mans depravity is total. Are we just better people then those prior Christ?
    Of & by myself, did I just wake up some morning with the desire to please God, start reading the Bible, attend church, chose Christ as my personal savior. All these good & God pleasing decisions prior to salvation ? If what I do compels God to act, then my salvation is not via Grace it is something I deserve. It is God who quickens my spirit, it is God who touches my heart & compels me to chose Christ, If I had the ability to accomplish this by my self… Then Christ wasn’t needed. No man comes to me unless the Father brings him to me.

  10. admin
    May 19th, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    Hi John,

    God’s plan will continue whether or not anyone decides to receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Yes, everyone starts out being dead in sin an unable to meet God’s standard. But God gives everyone a free will. In addition, we are capable of realizing that we are wretched sinners and can’t satisfy God’s standard and that we desperately need help. This is where our free will comes in. We can choose to accept God’s plan of salvation or we can reject it. If we do decide to reach out to God for help, it is because the Father is drawing us to Jesus. But we have to choose. Either way, God’s plan for the universe will continue on schedule.

  11. Robin
    May 31st, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Dear “Admin”, Bethany, Sean, and Ken… What an enjoyable “thread” to stumble upon while searching/researching for the right words to answer this exact question! I have been meeting with a friend who is asking sincere questions like Bethany’s.
    I think that the responder “Admin” has answered this question so well & succinctly… “God does not send anyone to hell.”
    The Bible says “God is love.” (1 John 4:8) That is His character and nature. And He loves the world so very much that He sent His most costly gift, His only Son. Isn’t that an amazing concept to wrap our minds around? It’s boggling! What a gift! Then Jesus CHOSE to lay down His life (John 10:18), for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2)! Out of love! For Jesus is love; He is the exact representation of His Father (Heb 1:3), who is Love.
    Jesus then rose from the dead as proof that the sin debt was paid in full. Consider what He did like a check that we ourselves can not write; our spiritual bank account is empty. We are incapable of paying our own sin debt because we, in and of ourselves, are totally spiritually corrupt and bankrupt (Romans 3:23, Romans 6:23; Jeremiah 17:9)
    So Christ wrote the check to pay our sin price… His death on the cross, where He became our sin so that we could become the righteousness of God in Him … 2 Corinthians 5:21.
    But isn’t it interesting that Mark 10:45 says “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.”? Hmmm… for many… not ALL? Why not “all”? Because not “all” choose to cash the “sin debt check” offered freely by Jesus.
    I also found Sean’s mixing of words very curious… “if Jesus died for everyone’s sins on the cross 2000+yrs ago, as in fact He did, and if he did indeed bear the sins of everyone, then why would God send forgiven sinners to hell?”
    Jesus did indeed die on the cross for “everyone’s” sins (1 John 2:2), but the leap to then think that “everyone” is forgiven is a deadly incorrect leap. It goes back to the uncashed “sin debt check”. Gotta cash that check Sean. Gotta come to that place of personal belief, to choose to cash that check and believe Jesus died for you and then rose from the dead for you to have new life in Him… not just in heaven but here and now as He lives His life in and through you. When you come to that place of personal belief, then you are forgiven.
    Fun thread. And I love how you all remained respectful in your responses. Rare in this day and age.
    Blessings as you continue to seek. Deuteronomy 4:29; Romans 10:20

  12. admin
    May 31st, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    Hi Robin,

    Thank you for your compliment. You have so eloquently clarified what I was trying to say to Bethany, Sean and Ken. I’m sure your explanation will truly help those who are struggling with this question.

    We are always happy to get comments and questions. It is a learning process for us as well as it causes us to do more research on various subjects. We are happy to report that all of those leaving comments and questions have been very respectful.

    Gob bless you Robin and all of those who are seeking Him.

  13. Billy
    November 9th, 2011 at 1:21 am

    So since jesus died for everyone. and only those who accept him will be saved. Jesus work is contingent on us accepting thus not the final atoning sacrifice. If what your saying is correct,( in that we play a role in our salvation)Jesus dying for our sins isn’t enough. I encourage you to read romans 8:21-30 again. Jesus death was not the cause and us believing in him is the effect. Jesus death was the cause and effect. We are drawn to Christ because God chose us. Not because we chose to believe in God.

  14. admin
    November 11th, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    Hi Billy,

    If I understand you correctly, you are saying no one has to believe in Jesus to be saved. What would you say to verses like Acts 16:30-31 “And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    This is a poor analogy but I hope it helps you understand. Let’s say I go to a grocery store and paid $100 for your grocery purchase and told the manager that this money is to go towards your next grocery purchase. Then I call you and tell you I have paid $100 to go toward your next grocery purchase. The fact that I paid $100 for your groceries does not put food on your table. You have to believe me and go to that store and accept the groceries that I paid for. Likewise we have to believe in Jesus and go to Him and accept His free gift of eternal life.

  15. Randy
    November 15th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    I have been struggling with understanding this issue for a while now since my girlfriend and I view this differently. I am going back to Scriptures with no agenda and humbly reading passages and trying to change/fit my understanding around the unchanging truth in the Bible (and not vice versa). I am willing to change my viewpoint as my understanding grows, I just need help understanding. Presently (and I say “presently”, because I know that I am a very limited creature who doesn’t have all the answers and my viewpoint very likely may change several times), I am understanding Scripture to say that Jesus’ sacrifice did not just make salvation possible, it actually WAS the propitiation or ransom that paid the price — Jesus was the Passover lamb. In the OT, the high priest would sacrifice the Passover lamb to make atonement for the sins of the people of Israel (not for the sins of every person in the world, just the chosen, ie. “Israel”) and this was completely that — a free gift of God not dependant upon anything the people would then do to receive it — it made atonement. We know that the death of an animal did not actually pay for their sins but this was a symbol God had established to point to Jesus and the nature of His substitutionary atonement, namely, that it paid full atonement for the sins God’s chosen. Maybe it is flawed, but that is my understanding of Jesus’ substitutionary atonement. If this atonement was literally paid for every person in the world on the cross then I do not understand how anyone can go to hell. Suppose you are in a courtroom where there is a guilty party and another person takes the punishment for their sins, there is nothing then by which the judge can justly punish that person since the wrong had been paid for. We know that God is not unjust and so I guess I do not understand then how people can go to hell if their sins are fully paid. We are dead in our sins and dead things do not move of their own accord or give themselves life — life needs to be infused from a separate source. Our free will is enslaved to sin and we will only choose apart from God. Therefore, it seems necessary that God would regenerate the person whom He had chosen so they can choose Him, and they do — in fact, ALL those God has chosen will come to Him and believe. Our very belief is a gift from God. Any action on man’s part to claw his way to this position of salvation seems to miss the point of our being “dead in our sins” and seems to add works to the gift of salvation. Therefore, a true belief in Him who saves and turning from the former sinful life seems to be the proof that you are saved (ie. You want to be saved? Believe!).
    Again, I’ll ask it this way… if Jesus died for every person and made a way that everyone can achieve a status of having their sins paid for, then why do some believe and others not? If God’s divine choice preceding and overruling this is not part of the equation, then one has to conclude it has to do with each person — that there is something better about those who believe versus those who do not, for why else would they believe and other not? But this then elevates those who believe above those who do not and robs Jesus of the full glory by adding their work of believing to what Jesus has already done.

    Does any of that make sense? Can you at least see where I am coming from? Am I way off base here? Please explain where I am going wrong, I sincerely and humbly wish to add to my understanding.

    Please help me understand how Jesus can stand before the Ancient of Days in the heavenly courtroom and say of each person, “I have fully paid for their sins” only to have the Judge ignore that and still punish some for their fully paid sins.

    Thank you kindly, I sincerely look forward to your thoughts on both side of this issue to help me understand better those deep theological areas I am admittedly have a tough time comprehending and I will apply what I learn to help shape my own understanding.

  16. admin
    November 16th, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    Hi Randy,

    You’re not alone! This is a difficult subject for many people. I suppose one of the main problems is that people think that the scriptures say that Jesus did for ALL the sins of the world. We see verses like “Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29. If verses like this mean that Jesus has taken away the sins of everyone, then we can presuppose that no one has and no one will ever go to hell.

    But instead we do indeed see in scripture that people have gone to hell and people will go to hell. For instance the rich man in Luke 16:19-31 died and lifted up his eyes in hell. Some write this off as being a parable. But parables never reveal the name of the characters. Jesus names a man called Lazarus in this story.

    Then in the future, we see people at the Great White Thrown judgement being cast into hell, Revelation 20. So either the death and resurrection of Jesus took away everyone’s sin or it didn’t. Which is it?

    We can also ask the question” Will God drag people kicking and screaming into heaven against their will? One thing the scriptures teach us is that God will not violate anyone’s free will. God wants people who choose to love Him and not people who are forced to love Him. That would not be love at all! So God in His infinite wisdom allows us to choose or reject his free gift of eternal life.

    Once we look at the Atonement of Jesus in this light, then verses like the following confirm that the Atonement of Jesus was a ransom for many, not for all, because many will choose to reject God’s free gift. “Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. Mathew 20:28″.

    There is an article at the Christian Research Institute website entitled The Atonement of Christ and the Faith Movement that really goes into depth about this topic as it relates to the faith movement. Maybe it will help you in your study. Here is an excerpt:

    “As Christians, we affirm that our salvation is based solely on what Christ did for us. And, we appropriate by faith what He has accomplished for us (Romans 3:21-4:5; Ephesians 2:8,9; II Timothy 1:8-11; Titus 3:4-7). By this affirmation we do not mean that saving faith involves nothing more than simply acknowledging that Jesus died for us, nor do we insist that a thorough and complete understanding of the Atonement is essential for salvation. Faith in the Lord Jesus Himself saves. And yet, such faith is based not only on who Jesus is, but on His finished work on the cross”. http://equip.org

    Let us know if this helps.

  17. Josh
    February 11th, 2012 at 12:13 am

    Okay, I feel like I’m butting in here from several months ago posts. And I’m not sure if anyone is even going to respond to this post. That being said, having just now stubbled across this post, I just must, must take some of the things being said here to task. I will start with, Randy, you are right, keep studying. And, I should start out by saying I will not give any scripture refs so as to save time, but if questioned, I will be glad to provide.

    So, you say “turn from their sins means repent”. Were does the bible say that? I say repent biblically means change of mind, from something to something different, from self-trust to trust in Christ. Sanctification (turning from sins) is a fruit of repentance, but we will never truely turn from all sin until heaven. We are only righteous, holy, just, and perfect because Christ was righteous, holy, just, and perfect for us. Oh, and if the question is do we do the repenting. No. The original language(greek) points out someone repents us, that someone is God. Second, you say “Will God drag people kicking and screaming into heaven against their will? ” Where does the bible say that? I say the bible says No one comes to the Father except the Father draws him(according to the greek, better translated “drags” him) Third, you say,”One thing the scriptures teach us is that God will not violate anyone’s free will.God wants people who choose to love Him and not people who are forced to love Him. That would not be love at all! So God in His infinite wisdom allows us to choose or reject his free gift of eternal life.” Where does the bible say that? I thought the bible says we are dead in trespasses and sins. Unable to come to God of our own free will, because our will is bent away from God serving to self serving, we are God haters and idolators at heart. Our will must be changed in order to seek Christ and His righteousness “so that we may not boast” And who are you to define what God’s love is like or that he can’t have a particular love. What if I said God is loving, merciful, just, wrathful, and jealous all at the same time. Just because God is love doesn’t mean he isn’t other things as well. But even to argue that way, one could say that wrath is love’s response to sin. Finally, I still think we haven’t identified the problem because we think we can understand all the mysteries of Christ work and All of who God is. We are given the scripture, and that is enough so we must say. God in Christ died for people who had, have, and will repent of self-trust and trust in the promise of salvation through the Savior, Messiah, Son of God, Jesus Christ(Old Testament future Savior, we New Testament believe that 2000 year old Cross Death) And this is only done in a person by the work of God in our hearts/minds and by his will. Upon this act of repentance, we recieve the great exchange, Christ’s perfect life for our sinful rebellious one. We become seen as Christ is seen; righteous, and we become children of God because of that exchange. I could go on. I shall try to finish. There is simply nothing wrong with saying we don’t have a perfect answer to this. Christ died for sinners. Some sinners will repent and others won’t. It may seem like a human act of the will, but It comes down to God’s will in every instance. God is sovereign, and not one person will go to heaven or hell if it were not his will. Don’t boast in a decision, or you believing, it was God who made a believer out of you, a wretched undeserving sinner, just like me. Study the scriptures in a reliable translation(no paraphrase), read every word carefully. Remember every word of scripture is, in the end, about Christ and what he’s done for us. Find resources online to understand the biblical languages. Start reading old Christian books. Find and read a reliable systematic theology. Run from churches that don’t teach Christ, so many teach us about ourselves to often.

    The “admin” of the page should be commended for his pursuit of the truth, he or she is not much different than myself in my past, so I understand many of the replies. And this is a well debated subject amongst many good Christians. I respect you who disagree with some of my conclusions. But, don’t just throw out my rebuke. Look it up, if I’m wrong, the bible, in context, will prove it. P.S. I haven’t really proof read this so it’s a bit off the cuff, I hope is makes sense.

  18. admin
    February 13th, 2012 at 11:46 am

    Hi Josh,

    No, you’re not butting in. We welcome all comments.

    It seems as though we are both saying the same thing, but only in a different way. For instance, you said;

    “So, you say “turn from their sins means repent”. Were does the bible say that? I say repent biblically means change of mind, from something to something different, from self-trust to trust in Christ.”

    “Changing your mind about sin” is essentially the same thing as saying “making a decision to turn from our sins”. You can’t automatically change your mind without first making a decision to change your mind. We can thus say that repenting is changing our minds about sin or turning away from a sin.

    You said;

    “Oh, and if the question is do we do the repenting. No. The original language(greek) points out someone repents us, that someone is God.”

    Where does the bible say that? All through the scriptures we are told to repent. For instance “ Matt 3:2 Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Matt 11:20 Then He began to denounce the cities in which most of His miracles were done, because they did not repent. Mark 6:12 They went out and preached that men should repent. Luke 13:5 I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.” If God does the repenting, why does Jesus and the apostles tell us to repent? If you consider all of the scriptures concerning repentance, you’ll reach the inescapable conclusion that we are the ones who must repent.

    You said;

    “Second, you say “Will God drag people kicking and screaming into heaven against their will? ” Where does the bible say that? I say the bible says No one comes to the Father except the Father draws him(according to the Greek, better translated “drags” him)”

    It’s true! No one comes to the Father except the Father draws him. Jesus also said “But I, when I am lifted from the earth, will draw all men to myself” John 12:32. Does that me that mean that all men or saved? Where in scripture does it give an example of someone being in heaven against their will? If you take all scriptures about this subject, you can come to the conclusion that God does not drag anyone into heaven against their will.

    You said;

    “Third, you say,”One thing the scriptures teach us is that God will not violate anyone’s free will.God wants people who choose to love Him and not people who are forced to love Him. That would not be love at all! So God in His infinite wisdom allows us to choose or reject his free gift of eternal life.” Where does the bible say that? I thought the bible says we are dead in trespasses and sins. Unable to come to God of our own free will, because our will is bent away from God serving to self serving, we are God haters and idolators at heart. Our will must be changed in order to seek Christ and His righteousness “so that we may not boast”

    Yes, we are dead in trespasses and sins. But where does the bible say “We are unable to come to God of our own free will” No, we can’t come to God on our own, but we can make the decision to want to turn to God and turn from sin. That’s called repentance. And we can also make a decision to believe that Jesus, the Son of the Living God, paid the price for our sins with His tortuous death burial and Resurrection. When that happens, God takes over the salvation process and washes away our sins and clothes us in the righteousness of His Holy Son.

    It’s true! Our salvation is all because of what Jesus did for us over 2,000 years ago. We are also told to preach the gospel to the whole world. Why would that be necessary if there is no decision on anyone’s part. We believe that the gospel is preached so that people can hear and respond. We don’t claim to know everything about God and we certainly don’t understand everything about Him. He is infinite and we are finite. We only try to preach the gospel and let the Holy Spirit convict and draw people to Jesus.

    I have tried to explain this to the best of my ability. I hope this has helped you. Maybe it would help you to get help on this subject from another perspective. There is a good place for resources on this subject at Equip.org . I’m sure you’ll find it most helpful.

  19. Josh
    February 14th, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    Yead I’ve read and heard Hank Hanegraaff before, and CRI, they are OK, better with Walter Martin at the helm in my opinion. And yes I do think we are very close, but not the same. When you state “Changing your mind about sin is making a decision to turn from our sins.” I take issue with that. Unless I’m understanding you wrongly, turning from our sins, is in effect, stopping sinning.(at lease known sins.) While I agree, the fruit of repentance is the spirits power growing stronger over the flesh as we grow in the Christian life, we never truely become sinless. In fact each one of us Christian’s sins daily and sins much, for the rest of our lives. Fore instance, each one of us are commanded to Love God with all heart, soul, mind and strength and love neighbor as our self. We don’t do this, ever. Even when we attempt to love God it isn’t with all and loving neighbor we do very poorly at too. Not to mention, all our good works are still tainted with our sinful nature, so none of them are done that by them selves please God. That’s why they must be done in faith. Also, doesn’t Romans 7 clearly show us that we are Christians continue in sin, even known sin? Perhaps, I’m not understanding you though. Please set me straight on this.

    On the issue of “decision”, it’s just not biblical. Deciding to believe is not in the gospel, it’s not part of the gospel presentation. All humans can make a decision. Many do decide to become believers, but don’t have God given repentance and faith. There faith in essence is dead. What has seemed to happen is we have shifted the issue from convicting the world of sin and unbelief by presenting the unrelenting Law of God, and then presenting the Gospel(the forgivness of sins in Jesus alone) to those whom God has repented. Now we are telling people they must do something; decide, ask Jesus into their heart, follow Jesus, turn from sin, confess sin, pray a prayer, profess faith, believe in the Lord, or accept Christ, all in order to get the forgivness. Some of these might be reactions to the gospel, but they are not the gospel. In preaching we should leave people with no hope, not in anything they can do, not a decision, not anything, except only only only in what Christ has already done for us. If you give sinful man something he can do to get forgiveness, get redemption, he will do it, and he will not trust alone in Christ. When the gospel is preached God will give repentance and faith to those hearers whom he choses, by the Words of Christ, not that anyone persuaded them to believe, but God gives them a new heart that can and does believe. We should tell of what God has done for sinful man and like you say “let the Holy spirit convict and draw people to Jesus.” I know how hard this issue is in explaining, and others have done better than me. I only press hard on this issue because many many people, including myself, have made false professions, said the prayer, made a decision, asked Jesus into there hearts, and it never affected there life because it couldn’t, thankfully God persued them(and me) and gave them the Gospel, and gave them a new heart, a repentant heart, that did believe that Christ was crucified for all of there sins. Ephesians 2 says it best “1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the bodya and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4Butb God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” Not of our own doing, not the grace, not the salvation, not even the faith is our work, so that none of us can boast. Amen.

    Admin, whomever you are, I think we are not far off from one another, but even though we do have diffences, probably irreconcilable difference, we can still be unified under Christ. I am thankful for talks like these to sharpen and sometimes sting me. I know the truth is here, somewhere in the mix of our, and other’s exchanges, praise God that he saves even when we don’t all have it quite right, you or me. I hope for the Lord to sharpen us both by a sincere reflection of our differing thoughts. Grace and Peace, Josh

  20. Josh
    February 14th, 2012 at 11:56 pm

    I do want to clarifiy something. I do think we should call for man to respond to the Gospel. The point is not to make our response THE Gospel. And the response required in scripture is repent/believe this Gospel. Not asking for a decision to follow Jesus(Jesus even tells the disciples that it was He that chose them to follow, i.e. not there decision), or asking Jesus into our hearts through us opening the door of our hearts(Revelation 3:20 is not talking about our hearts, Christ is talking to the Laodician church, one that has forgotten about Him), and etc. And we should not make it simple, instead make it impossible without God. And don’t tell people they are without a doubt saved without anything else. The bible says faith without fruit(works) is dead. And it says continuing faith and daily repentance will follow a true believer. There is several other things a true Christian will look like, loving the Word of God-not adding to or taking away from it, loving the brothers and sisters of the faith, despising false teaching and teachers and rejecting them, not following them.(see almost all of Pauls letters, especially Galatians), the fruit of the spirit, faith being one part of that fruit, etc. Anyways, just wanted to clarify.

    Im not a huge fan of tracts, but this is quite a good one in expressing my thoughts on the subject.

    http://www.gty.org/Resources/Articles/2425

  21. admin
    February 15th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Hi Josh,

    I am very familiar with John MacArthur’s Grace To You ministry. This is another excellent resource. If you’ll notice in the GTY article you referenced, the very last sentence says “Will you repent and believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?” As you can see, to repent and believe requires a decision to be made.

    As far as “faith without works is dead” it is works that testify to our salvation. We do good works not to be saved. We do good works because we are saved. Remember the thief on the cross who asked Jesus to remember him when he(Jesus) comes into his kingdom? There is no doubt that this man was saved and yet being on the cross, he was unable to do any good works. Jesus + nothing = salvation.

  22. admin
    February 15th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    Hi Josh,

    I believe that we indeed can be unified in Christ. We may disagree on some things but I think the problem here is the word “decision”. When I say we need to make the decision to repent and believe, I mean we must make the decision to WANT to repent and WANT to believe. Then the Holy Spirit gives us the power to repent and believe. If you disagree, I guess we’ll have to respectfully agree to disagree. May God increase our knowledge as we endeavor to draw ever closer to Him.

  23. Randy
    February 15th, 2012 at 11:38 pm

    Greetings all. Thanks for your comments on this topic.
    I have been following your comments and I felt compelled by God’s Spirit within me to write how blessed I am by the unity among fellow believers I have been witnessing here. I am so impressed by the maturity that enables each of you to hold strongly to your viewpoints on non-salvation issues and clearly explain them while humbly listening to differing viewpoints and recognizing that even if we have viewpoints that are 180 degrees different, we are still united as brothers and sisters in Christ. Our temptation of flesh and pride is to cling to our interpretations to try and win the battle at any cost, but in so doing we are short-sightedly losing the war. I see you on here as fellow Christians who are able to recognize the difference and not give in to that temptation of the flesh. I enjoy open & respectful discussions about these matters and I also realize that I can be incorrect on my interpretations on non-salvation issues, but I continue to be a student of Scripture and as God continues to teach me new things at church, from friends, through Bible studies, … I will continue to apply what I learn with an open mind. As the saying goes: “In the essentials, unity. In the non-essentials, liberty. And in all things, charity”. I continue to look forward to seeing more of these respectful and understanding comments, since in so doing, I am getting a picture of heaven.

  24. admin
    February 16th, 2012 at 10:24 am

    Hi Randy,

    Thank you so much for those encouraging words. It means a lot to know that these discussions are appreciated. We hope that this really helps people to dig into the scriptures, receive God’s free gift of eternal life and have a closer relationship with the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings.

  25. Josh
    February 16th, 2012 at 10:29 pm

    Hello again, just a few more comments and questions if I may. The other day I only mentioned the answer to your first rebuttle, and you had the following question;

    “You said;
    “Oh, and if the question is do we do the repenting. No. The original language(greek) points out someone repents us, that someone is God.”

    Where does the bible say that? All through the scriptures we are told to repent.”

    ANSWER: Act 5:30, 2 Tim. 2:24-26, Acts 5:30,31, and yes the bible does call all men to repent, but just because we are told to doesn’t mean we can(Do you know anybody who can follow those 10 famous commands of God in Exodus, or even the simple greatest command Jesus recalled from Deuteronomy, Love God and Love Neighbor. I don’t, yet we are commanded to)

    Now this is a mixture of categories, but I hope I’m bringing home the point. I can see how “God repents us” might throw you off, so it’s better to just say God grant’s us repentance, but we of course repent when he does this.

    Great article by the great John MacArthur on Repentance: http://www.gty.org/Resources/articles/1253

    Now to go on to your following points, The answer to the “God drawing” could be answered 2 ways. The first is all doesn’t always mean all people, most commentators would say this is just a reference to all kinds of people, Jews and Gentiles alike. Also, you could say this verse doesn’t necessarily say all “men”. The word men isn’t in the Greek, and some commentators say this should be all things. Never the less, it’s too obscure to get a sure meaning for me. If we are going to talk about God’s will in how we receive salvation I use John 1:6-13

    There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

    Notice “all might believe”, “enlightens every man”, yet “his own didn’t receive him”, and “those who believe in His name, were born not of the will of man, but of God.”

    This verse says alot about this issue and about who’s will determines our salvation.

    Finally as far as addressing your rebuttle, the issue of man’s will. This is a hard one. The problem I am beginning to see in your answers is you state you believe in the total depravity of man, his deadness in his sins, his corruption through the line of Adam, also called original sin, but the deadness you speak of still allows for an action by sinful man. As you say, a decision of the will to repent and believe. While I am not prepared tonight to give a post on total depravity and it’s implication, I will just ask a few questions if I may and you may answer as you wish.

    If, perhaps as you say, we can before God acts in us, can by our free will, produce repentance and faith in Christ, and another person rejects Jesus and never repents or believes in Christ, does that make you better than the other person? Doesn’t that option imply that I did something better, or was wiser or smarter than the unbeliever? Doesn’t that option open me up to having a reason to boast about my part in salvation?

    And if, perhaps, I did have a part in salvation by acting my free will to choose or decide to follow Christ, does that mean when Christ died he was wrong when he said “it is finished?” It sounds as if Christ work did not accomplish salvation, it only made it possible for those that would then, by something special in them, would choose to believe in Him, right? So we start the salvation process, and God then finishes it?

    And if God never violates our free will, how does that work with the conversion of Paul/Saul? Or Abraham, Or Noah, Or Joseph’s 11 Brothers, and many many more? In all of those instances, God sure looks like he not only acts first, but completely violates there free will? They don’t seem to have anything special, just God acting and using them. Right?

    In conclusion, If you want to say Man makes a decision, fine. If you want to say man has a free will, fine. Even if you want to say we repent and believe in a response to the hearing of the Gospel, fine. While not a fan of these phrases, in the end all I’m contending for is a God started and completed salvation, “the author and finisher of our faith,” that God must change our fallen “free”will, our corrupt heart, our total depravity, in order that we can act in faith towards him by a free will decision of repentance and faith. The Ordo Salutis if you will. Basically, Monergistic Regeneration is what I’m contending for.

    I hope this helps, and I hope to make anymore future comments much more brief and have high hopes to discuss some common ground on perhaps another issue.

    Grace and Peace,
    Josh

  26. Josh
    February 19th, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    As I was reading my devotional and praying tonight, I was thinking about this blog. I thought I might come on and say just one last thing to the readers of this blog. Yes sometimes we Christians have to draw the line in the sand and say this alone is the Gospel, or what a Christian is, and you are on hell’s side and need to repent. But this is not always the case. Some people often think that when Christian’s “battle” over unique theological points that somehow it hurts our reputation or disunifies us as Christians or we are saying your in and your out to everyone. But this is wholly not true. The administrator and I, as I have said, are not that far apart. We are not fighting a major issue, an important, but not major, and certainly not a gospel issue. As John Wesley once said that there is only a “hair’s breath” between our 2 distinct ideas of how this all works. These issues of minor theological differences have been and always will be fought over by the Whitfields and the Wesleys, both great men and equally used by God. But God is an amazing and all powerful God whom we both want to know and understand with our incomplete evidence and our vastly smaller, weaker, and carnal minds. “For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known” 1 Cor. 13:12 So we may come to distinctly different views, but none of which harms our unity under Christ and his Gospel.

    Together for the Gospel we say;
    1 Corinthians 15:1-10 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain.

    And man’s response;
    Act 2:37-38 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Under this may we find unity. Amen.

    Grace be unto you and Peace,
    Josh

  27. Jim
    February 20th, 2012 at 6:00 am

    Lately I have been wondering about some things. First, maybe Jesus died, not so God could forgive us, but so that we could received His forgiveness. We were lost in our sin and slaves to it, unable to connect with a Father who wanted to connect with us. Jesus freed us from that curse so that we can now love the Father in return. Second, maybe Jesus did take away the sins of the world and hell is not a place we go because we are not forgiven. Maybe hell is the alternative for those who now have the ability to love Him but do not wish to do so. In that sense, hell is not a place of punishment for unpaid sins, but rather the sad alternative for those who don’t want His love. Third, maybe Jesus’ death had less to do with our eternal dwelling place and more to do with freeing us so that we could know the Father intimately, here and now, and continuing into eternity.

  28. admin
    February 20th, 2012 at 10:12 am

    Hi Jim,

    Those are some interesting thoughts. But any way you look at it, we are eternally lost without God’s forgiveness and grace through His Son, Jesus Christ.

  29. admin
    February 20th, 2012 at 11:31 am

    Hi Josh,

    Aman! Under this may we find unity.

  30. admin
    February 20th, 2012 at 11:42 am

    Hi Josh,

    Like you said, I think we are not far apart on this issue. So I’ll try to answer some of your questions.

    You said:“If, perhaps as you say, we can before God acts in us, can by our free will, produce repentance and faith in Christ, and another person rejects Jesus and never repents or believes in Christ, does that make you better than the other person? Doesn’t that option imply that I did something better, or was wiser or smarter than the unbeliever? Doesn’t that option open me up to having a reason to boast about my part in salvation?”

    Here I think you misunderstood me. No, I don’t believe we can produce repentance by our own free will. I do believe when we have a “change of mind” about sin and want to turn from sin, then God through the Holy Spirit gives us the power to repent and believe. Just because I received Jesus as my Lord and Savior doesn’t make me a better person than those who reject Him. No one in heaven will be able to boast because we will all know that the only reason we are there is because of the grace of God and what Jesus did for us over 2,000 years ago.

    You said:“And if, perhaps, I did have a part in salvation by acting my free will to choose or decide to follow Christ, does that mean when Christ died he was wrong when he said “it is finished?” It sounds as if Christ work did not accomplish salvation, it only made it possible for those that would then, by something special in them, would choose to believe in Him, right? So we start the salvation process, and God then finishes it?”

    When Jesus said “it is finished”, it was truly finished. All that was necesary for our salvation was accomplished. But that doesn’t mean that all will be saved. But here I think I need to ask a question of you. Do you believe that there are now people suffering in Hades (not hell)? Or let me put it another way. Do you believe there will be people cast into hell after the Great White Throne Judgement? If so, what do you think is the reason that they are sent there? If not, what is the reason you think no one goes there? I ask you these questions because it seems as though you may believe that Jesus died for our sins and therefore everyone is saved.

    You said“And if God never violates our free will, how does that work with the conversion of Paul/Saul? Or Abraham, Or Noah, Or Joseph’s 11 Brothers, and many many more? In all of those instances, God sure looks like he not only acts first, but completely violates there free will? They don’t seem to have anything special, just God acting and using them. Right?”

    In the above instances I believe that these men already had a “change of mind” about sin and God used them further. In Paul’s case I think he may have already had a “change of mind” about what he was doing, or God gave him a strong persuasion to “change his mind”. Then God used him to be His great apostle. But I believe Paul still could have refused and if he did, God probably would have given him a stronger persuasion or he would have raised up another great apostle.

    Hope this helps!

  31. Josh
    March 1st, 2012 at 11:37 pm

    Admin, you there? You okay? If you want to discuss this privately, just email me or not at all, just tell me to cease and I shall. I hope everything is okay. Hope to hear soon.

    Josh

  32. admin
    March 7th, 2012 at 8:52 am

    Hi Josh,

    Thanks for your concern. I’m okay. Just been very busy. Hope to be able to continue this conversation soon.

  33. Josh
    March 29th, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    Okay, so admin it does appear we are at a stalemate on the “who is the first cause” issue. And that’s okay, I believe we have argued our views well, and the readers can choose and comment as they like.

    And you asked me a follow up question. “Do you believe that there are now people suffering in Hades (not hell)? Or let me put it another way. Do you believe there will be people cast into hell after the Great White Throne Judgement? If so, what do you think is the reason that they are sent there? If not, what is the reason you think no one goes there? I ask you these questions because it seems as though you may believe that Jesus died for our sins and therefore everyone is saved.”

    Understandable questions. I hope that my previous post to Jim has answered the first 3 questions; Yes, Yes, Sin. You asked at the beginning of this blog post as the title “Did Christ die for the sins of everyone?” And I have an answer. It may be to some a shocking answer; the answer is NO. Christ did not die for the sins of everyone, he died only for those that would believe, the elect, the chosen. Some believe it was by foreknowledge, I personally believe it was by predestination. Don’t judge me so quickly, this is something many Christians have and do believe, you can hardly have a list of famous Christians or Theologians without many on it with this same persuasion. And this answer did not come to me easily. I had to fight through it, dig through scripture for it, and cry over it for a long time. Anyways, you say “To me the scriptures are saying that God made it possible for all to be saved by giving His One and Only Son, Christ Jesus, to pay the price for our sins.” You are saying that God in Christ made it possible, I’m saying he made it actual, he actually accomplished it right then and there. This doesn’t mean it’s over. We are still responsible for our response to the Gospel. But what I’m saying is an elect person will, by a changed nature, respond with repentance and faith, and a nonelect person will, by their depraved nature, continue in rebellion against God. I’m sure many people likely say, “this doesn’t sound fair”. Read Romans 9, then we’ll talk. I know this doesn’t explain much, and I’m certain I just opened another can of worms. Oh well. Admin, I hope this doesn’t mean we can’t be friends?!?! Grace and Peace, Josh

  34. admin
    March 29th, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    Hi Josh,

    Sorry it took so long to repond. As you say, your views on predestination and election are vigorously debated by repectable theologians. I for one believe that God has choosen some of us as His elect. In other words I believe He says from the begining that these people are mine. These people are His elect. You can call this predestination. For everyone else, the door of salvation is open to “whomever will”.

    This may seem strange to you and others because I have not heard anyone explain it quite like this. But this is what I believe and I’m sure this is an acceptable explanation as is your’s. I guess we won’t really know the answer until we get to heaven.

    I also believe the way you do as to the question “Did Jesus die for the sins of everyone?” However, you said everyone is responsible for responding to the gospel. I simply call that response, a matter of our free will. We are not far apart Josh. I don’t think it’s necessary for us to agree on every secondary issue. But it is important that we agree on the essential biblical doctrines.

  35. Josh
    March 29th, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    Well…, First I would like to address Jim. Okay, this may start another firestorm, but Jim I think we have to answer the question What is hell? Answer: The place where the wrath of God abides forever. Why are people in hell, what sent them there, why are they punished? Answer: Sin. Rev.20:11-15 Why do people sin? Answer: Because we are sinners at heart, by nature. All of us by nature, to not want to love, worship, or enjoy God. You me, and every other Christian has been plucked from the fire we were on our way to. Ephesians 2:1-10 And finally regarding Jesus’ death. The bible clearly says His death was for the forgiveness of our sins, by taking our punishment, the wrath of God we deserve. But that would only make us innocent before God, much like the first Adam, so Christ not only took our sins on him, but he exchanged our sinfulness for his sinlessness, this is called the substitutionary atonement of Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:21 Therefore we are justified, sanctified, and glorfied by the blood of Christ. Romans 8:29-30 And we have gone from being children of wrath to being children of God and have become heirs to the kingdom of heaven with Christ. Romans 8:14-16 I hope this helps. Jim, a great way to answer these questions is maybe to get a Pastor or Christian friend to have a bible study time. Start with the book of Romans, it is rich in answers to many of your questions. And get a good commentary to help you along in the difficult parts, such as Douglas Moo or Charles Hodge. Finally, be encouraged, and keep asking good questions. We have all been there and still are in many senses. Grace to you!

  36. admin
    March 29th, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    Aman Josh! I could not have said it better. At the risk of opening another can of worms, I do believe the unsaved souls are in a place of torment called Hades. There they await the Great White Throne Judgement. After that they will be cast into hell. Hades will also be cast into hell.

    I welcome your thoughts on this.

  37. Randy
    March 29th, 2012 at 10:37 pm

    What do you all think about “Free Will”? This is a term I see thrown around a lot, but I don’t think everyone has the same impression when they use that phrase in conversation, and I’m curious if any of you have thought about it. The idea is that we are voluntary creatures who make choices and are justly held accountable for our actions, I get that. However, I think that the only being that truly has a “free will” is God, since all other beings are dependant created beings, and therefore has a will not totally free. And the Bible is clear to point out we are slaves to our sinful nature and are enemies of God who will never voluntarily choose Him, but by the grace of God who intervenes and elects those whom He chooses. For those whom God moves to faith in Him and who then confirm that faith by receiving Jesus into their hearts are controlled no longer by the sinful nature but by the Spirit of God. So it would seem that while we are responsible for our actions, we are also either “controlled” by the sinful nature or by the Spirit in such a way that we are not totally “free”, as some may describe free. Someone told me to ask someone who believes we have a totally free will to choose for ourselves the following questions:
    1. Do you believe you have a free will? (sure)
    2. Do you love the Lord your God and desire to wholeheartedly serve Him? (yes)
    3. Why don’t you (because my will is not entirely free… oh, hmm…)

    For if our will is totally “free”, and we love God and want to please Him all the time, then why do we sin?

  38. admin
    April 6th, 2012 at 10:02 am

    Hi Randy,

    This is really hard to explain, but I’ll try to answer your question. ” For if our will is totally “free”, and we love God and want to please Him all the time, then why do we sin?” The reason why we sin is because we are sinners. It’s our nature to sin. Even those who have been saved, still have sinned. As believers, it is our will to please the one who loved us so much that he suffered and died a horible death, was buried and rose from the dead to pay the price for our sins. But even though it is our will to please him, we still sin because it is our nature.

    Since we now have Jesus living in us through the Holy Spirit, that sinful nature is now under control. Thus we no longer have a lifestyle of sin. However, we still ocassionally sin. But now we confess our sin and He is faithful and forgives our sins and cleanses us from all unrighteousness.

  39. Josh
    April 6th, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    Hi admin, i think your last comment #38 was spot on. I do find you view on election and whomever will interesting, but i think it is clear we are delving into the realm of the unanswerable, simply not enough solid scripture. I apreciate the discussion weve had, i have learned from you. To be honest i have not studied about the hades hell issue enough to really agree or disagree. I would enjoy hearing what you mean more. If it takes me a bit of time to respond it is because my wife is in icu at the hospital. She is going through a very scary battlle with a fungal infection. My blog gives more info. Prayers are needed. Thanks and talk soon.

  40. admin
    June 6th, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    Hi Josh,

    I’ve been away for awhile. Sorry it took so long to reply. I have also enjoyed my conversations with you. I agree with you. On some things we just don’t have enough scripture to be dogmatic. I guess we’ll have to wait until we are face to face with our beloved Savior to get the answers.

    I do hope your wife is doing better. You both will be in my prayers.

  41. Randy
    June 7th, 2012 at 3:00 am

    Thank you. And yes, I understand all what you have said and I would agree that we are sinners who sin because of this fallen nature. My point was more to the usage of the term “free will”. I hear it used so much and I don’t think people fully understand what they mean when they use it. Yes, I understand that people don’t like the idea that we are simply mindless robotic automotons that have no say in anything we think or do because this does not seem to jive with Scripture that implores us to “freely drink of the water of life” and to “choose us this day whom we will serve” and this does not bring glory to God when some love Him because they are forced to love Him and do not freely choose Him. However, I feel that the danger then for some is to flee to the other extreme, which I feel is equally incorrect. And that is to say that our wills are totally free… that we simply choose God or not of our own complete volition. This is also not Scriptural since the Bible tells us that “there is no one righteous, not even one” and that there is no one who chooses God without God first choosing them. Only those whom the Father has already chosen will come to Him and ALL those the Father has chosen will come to Him. Bottom line here is that our wills are not totally free — as Paul put it, we are either a slave to sin or a slave to Christ. Or simply put another way, to those who would say our wills are totally free, then I ask those 3 questions:
    1. Is your will totally free?
    2. Do you wish to serve God with your whole being?
    3. Do you?

    I guess to summarize, I was simply seeing what others thought of the term “free will”. I hear it used so much without a full understanding of what is being said (”free” is not really “free” by what some might understand it to mean. For example, an astronaut floating in space might seem to be “free-floating”, but every photo you see of an astronaut is not really free-floating as weightless, but is really quite severely being pulled toward the earth by its gravity. They might seem weightless & free when viewed within the very limited confines of their cabin or next to the space shuttle, however, the thing they are being compared to is also severely affected by gravity as well. Maybe it is the case with our wills too that in our limited scope they might seem “free” to us in our daily lives but in reality our wills and even our daily lives and all we compare it to are really not free at all, but under God’s definite & ultimate control). I think there is a danger of extreme viewpoints on both sides of the aisle with regards to this: Mindless Automotons vs Soveriegn Wills. Of course, I continue to be a student of Scripture and will continue to allow God’s unchanging Word to shape my viewpoints from what He teaches me from it through His Holy Spirit and other believers.

    Humbly Yours,
    Randy

  42. admin
    June 8th, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Hi Randy,

    I do understand your concern. I admit, I don’t fully understand how God choosing us works with our free wills. Like you, I to continue to rely on God’s word and the Holy Spirit to open my eyes to His glorious truths.

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